To start with, I am extremely concerned -- and I know I'm not alone in this (see Kevin Myers and the Immigration Control Platform for examples) -- at the levels of mass immigration into Ireland at the moment; the likelihood of the profound changes that mass immigration will bring to Ireland; and the fact that there seems to be little to no discussion about immigration issues in our society or in the Irish press.
Ireland has taken in something like 600,000 immigrants in the last five years -- we think. That's the equivalent of the UK taking in 9 million immigrants -- or the US, 45 million immigrants. One only needs to looks at the rest of Europe to see what sorts of potential changes such mass immigration will inevitably bring to our country.
I'm Irish and, like most people in the world, I happen to have a preference for my fellow people and culture. We're not a perfect group of people -- not by a long shot -- we have our failings like most peoples in the world. But, I like being Irish and I like the positive aspects of our "Irish-ness" and I don't want to see that disappear.
The citizens of Ireland need to think about the implications of mass immigration to our country and discuss them in order to plan for the future -- to leave our children and our grand-children with the best possible opportunities in which to thrive. That's the first, main goal of the blog, then -- to promote an honest and open discussion about immigration to Ireland.
*****
As fond as I am of Ireland and my fellow Irish, I am even more enamoured of and dedicated to Western Civilization as a whole. Yes -- Westerners are guilty of all sorts of crimes against humanity -- we can be as greedy and atrocious and horrible as any group on the planet. I won't make any excuses for any of that. But at the same time, Western Civilization has brought the world scientific reasoning and thought (see Fjordman's essays on the scientific revolution), modern medicine, ideas on human rights and democracy, and a general independence of mind and spirit for which I will never apologize and which I will promote and fight for until my final breath. ALL of the world's populations have benefited enormously from the inventions of Western Civilization and I, for one, do not want to see that civilization disappear.
But it may very well disappear if unregulated mass immigration -- some of the largest the world has ever seen -- of non-Western peoples into the West continues. The different populations of the world (yes, the races) are -- well -- different on average from each other. ("On average" meaning that not every individual in each race bears all of the average traits found in that race -- "on average" refers to the characteristics of the group as a whole.) Never mind all the politically correct nonsense one hears every day -- different human populations are different from each other on average in terms of such traits as intelligence, frequency of personality types, and such traits as aggression. This is just the nature of biology -- different sub-populations of animal species differ -- it would be strange if the same were not true of humans. If you don't believe science, then look around you with your own eyes -- read a little history or ethnography.
So, if we are not selective about the types of immigrants we allow into the West -- and Europe, anyway, certainly hasn't been particularly selective so far -- we'll probably get groups of immigrants that represent the averages of whatever population they come from. And, in many cases, that may simply not be a good thing. The Western world needs to be discussing the issue of mass immigration -- honestly and openly. That's the second, main goal of this blog -- to promote discussion about mass immigration to the West.
*****
Now is the point when many people out there would call me a racist -- as a fellow commenter on the Indo did just the other day. I am not racist -- well, not in the sense of the second definition in the Oxford English dictionary which is how most people use the word today. I do not believe in discrimination against other people because of their race -- I believe all people should be judged (in a job interview, for instance) based on their own merits. I definitely do not believe in being antagonistic toward other people because of their race. And I certainly don't care about mixed-race marriages or friendships or anything like that -- those are matters of private choice which are not anybody else's business, as far as I'm concerned.
What I do care about, though, is that by continuing to allow the unregulated mass immigration of groups of people having traits different to those of Westerners (on average) -- especially of groups that do not assimilate well -- we will further alter, to our detriment, the biological characteristics of the West's population that underpin our society and our values.
For instance, several writers (Sailer, Parker, Kurtz here and here) have written about how institutionalized practices of cousin marriage are detrimental to democracy and nation-building since inbred groups naturally tend to feel greater allegiance to their fellow extended family members rather than society on the whole [read these]. I know this sounds like a strange and obscure idea to many folks out there -- but how related we are (our genetic relatedness) to our family members and to our fellow members of society predicts how cooperative and free (or not) our societies are. Societies with institutionalized cousin marriage are typically the least democratic and free in the world. Conversely, Western societies -- which have very low levels of cousin marriage -- are some of the most democratic and free. See for yourself.
And so we come to Islam.
Muslims, on the whole, seem to many observers in Europe and the West to be some of the least compatible immigrant groups in the West and Islam seems to be incompatible with Western ideals. I contend that this is the case because of how inbred the populations in most Islamic countries are. Look again. Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Turkey, Egypt, Algeria -- all have very high levels of cousin marriage -- cousin marriage occurs at rates of between 20-50%+ in these countries. (Notice, too, that Nigeria also has a very high level of cousin marriage.) Then, consider the average IQ of these nations (all hovering around 85 -- Turkey is the highest with an average IQ of 90). Or where these countries fall on Transparency International's corruption index -- not a good record. These are no coincidences.
From Sailer:
One of the basic laws of modern evolutionary science, quantified by the great Oxford biologist William D. Hamilton in 1964 under the name "kin selection," is that the more close the genetic relationship between two people, the more likely they are to feel loyalty and altruism toward each other. Natural selection has molded us not just to try to propagate our own genes, but to help our relatives, who possess copies of some of our specific genes, to propagate their own.This is the third, main goal of this blog: to promote an honest and open discussion about immigration of peoples who practice cousin marriage -- in particular Muslims -- and the implications this has for the West.
Nepotism is thus biologically inspired. Hamilton explained that the level of nepotistic feeling generally depends upon degree of genetic similarity. You share half your personally variable genes with your children and siblings, but one quarter with your nephews/nieces and grandchildren, so your nepotistic urges will tend to be somewhat less toward them. You share one eighth of your genes with your first cousins, and one thirty-second with your second cousin, so your feelings of family loyalty tend to fall off quickly.
But not as quickly if you and your relatives are inbred. Then, you'll be genealogically and related to your kin via multiple pathways. You will all be genetically more similar, so your normal family feelings will be multiplied. For example, your son-in-law might be also be the nephew you've cherished since his childhood, so you can lavish all the nepotistic altruism on him that in an outbred family would be split between your son-in-law and your nephew.
Unfortunately, nepotism is usually a zero sum game, so the flip side of being materially nicer toward your relatives would be that you'd have less resources left with which to be civil, or even just fair, toward non-kin. So, nepotistic corruption is rampant in countries such as Iraq, where Saddam has appointed members of his extended family from his hometown of Tikrit to many key positions in the national government. [link]
*****
My own opinion is that Europe needs to stop taking in immigrant groups who practice cousin marriage and to make cousin marriage (and the related practice of arranged marriages) illegal -- especially for those immigrant groups who practice it. Judging from all that we know about institutionalized cousin marriage, there is no way that these groups are ever going to successfully integrate into Western society. In fact, the initial evidence shows that such groups are, in fact, not integrating well.
Believe me, this is not an easy proposition for me to make since normally I value the right of individuals to make up their own minds about such life choices as marriage (although one could argue that arranged marriages do not allow that). I suppose I have had to revise my stance to allow for individual freedoms to apply to Westerners in the West and not, necessarily, to non-Westerners. I can live with the double-standard if it means the preservation of Western society. (Of course, what non-Westerners choose to do in their own countries is up to them and none of my business.)
I previously offered a set of suggestions regarding what sorts of immigrants to allow into Ireland and the West. I had four ideas which I offer again:
Why not prioritize taking in groups from countries which rank high on Transparency International's International Corruption Perceptions Index -- in other words those that have low levels of corruption?*****
Why not prioritize taking in groups from countries with high IQs?
Why not prioritize taking in groups from countries with similar ideals?
Why not prioritize taking in groups from countries that do not practice cousin marriage?
Another commenter on the Indo site the other day said about me (in a not very charming tone): "Do you have a problem with French or German people moving into Ireland? probably not." Actually, yes, like I said above -- I DO have a problem with all mass immigration to Ireland. I'd like Ireland to stay Irish, not become a région d'outre-mer of France or a state of Germany. However, if I had to pick between 100,000 (ethnically) French immigrants and, say, 100,000 Muslim Iraqis, then yes -- I have to say, for all the reasons outlined above, I'd prefer the French immigrants.
Regarding the two commenters I mentioned in this post -- the one above and the other one who said I was a racist -- these are the sorts of people who do not want a discussion about immigration issues, but simply resort to name-calling and other tactics just to win the argument. Well, I've read Schopenhauer's "The Art of Controversy" [see also here] and so am familiar with the techniques -- and I'm not interested.
We need an open and honest adult discussion on immigration based on the facts -- not on politically correct notions or childish behaviours -- before it's too late.

32 comments:
This post is cosmically ironic in light of American history. All this post needs is the jaunty tune "No Irish Need Apply," and we're set.
A modest proposal, Femme du Hibernia: consider phrenological surveys of new immigrants to the Emerald Isle to weed out the lower-IQ types. The key is to find the best-proportioned skulls to let in.
That'll be using the old bean!
DU
Very nicely put, Hibernia Girl. Yours is one of the more rational voices on this very emotional issue, and I plan to hold you up as a very positive example of what what one side of the debate on immigration should sound like. You also write beautifully. Keep up the good work, Irish girl!
Thanks, luke! :-)
Drop Mechanical Eye off for a stroll through one of the delightfully hellish Muslim neighborhoods of France.
I'd like to hear him spit out that phrase "cosmically ironic" as he spits out his teeth.
Mechanical Eye's nostalgia for the old Nazis leaves him unable to see the multicultural police state goose stepping in their diversity boots ready to trample all.
king S.
You do write beautifully, Hibernia Girl. Also very level-headedly and with a deep look into the facts. Keep going, your doing very important work by combatting this. All the bad predictions are very likely to come true if history is any indicator.
I only found this site yesterday but I'm impressed with the quality of the content I've read so far.
I set up a blog myself a few months ago dealing with immigration (http://worsethansf.blog.com/) but I've been too lazy to update it regularly.
Have you heard of the eirenet (www.eirenet.org) messageboards? It's linked to a defunct (or made up) 'Irish National Party'. I've been posting there for the last few months. Both sides of the immigration debate can post freely and there's hardly any moderation so it's not like boards.ie.
The site could do with someone like yourself to present the case against immigration in a more level-headed way than I'm capable of so it would be great if you would consider registering on the site and contributing some posts.
What are the countries of origin for Ireland's immigrants? I would assume that many are East European. I want to say that that makes it less bad, as East Europeans are certainly closer, genetically, to the Irish than a lot of other groups out there. But, then, they aren't Irish, are they? And if you want Ireland to stay Irish...
If you need workers, why not try to attract Irish-Americans? God knows there's no shortage of them.
I wouldnt bother with eirenet. Its piss poor. Apparently the Irish National Party are the imagination of one slightly unhinged former BNP member. No-one ever debates on it. There might be no more than six or seven posts in a week. Stormfront would be a better place(but not by much)
Eirenet may not be perfect, but it at least gives people who are against immigration a chance to voice there concerns.
try doing that on boards.ie or even politics.ie. Even stormfront will ban you if you are for immigration.
So I give Eirenet a thumbs up!
Yo HG
could you post more about how other European countries deal with immigration not just Ireland. I think it would be interesting to comment and debate how other countries experience mass immigration and globalisation.
'Believe me, this is not an easy proposition for me to make since normally I value the right of individuals to make up their own minds about such life choices as marriage '
This can only be tolerated if it can be shown to have no harmful effects on society as a whole (common good), but if it can be shown to be detrimental to society then it has to be stopped.
'ALL of the world's populations have benefited enormously from the inventions of Western Civilization and I, for one, do not want to see that civilization disappear.'
The foundation of the creativity of the West is genetic, anything which dilutes the genetic purity of white genome must be stopped.
'the name "kin selection," is that the more close the genetic relationship between two people, the more likely they are to feel loyalty and altruism toward each other. Natural selection has molded us not just to try to propagate our own genes, but to help our relatives, who possess copies of some of our specific genes, to propagate their own.'
Then it follows that we should give preference to our own people and not to racially different strangers. Especially when it comes to marriage.
'to leave our children and our grand-children with the best possible opportunities in which to thrive.'
If the majority of children are the result of racially mixed marriages, then the Irish Nation as we know it will have ceased to exist. I do not think we can permit this to happen as a result of 'matters of private choice which are not anybody else's business'.
It's quite clear from the class of people who have bothered to comment here that you are not creating any worthwhile debate. I mean really, are you trying to create debate?? Posting articles joined up and quoted out of context to make it appear that immigrants are responsible for every possible crime?? Are you for real? Are you honest? or are you what I think you are?
V: I mean really, are you trying to create debate??
Yes, I am. Anyone is welcome to air their opinions on immigration here, pro or con.
Why don't you engage in the debate rather than simply launch into a personal attack towards me and other readers of this blog? That's not very productive, is it?
Listen, I think it's a good thing to try to discuss complex issues. I became excited by blogger initially because I felt I could engage with people on opposite sides of the fence but I have yet to find such a place.
Here's a few questions:
Where do the figures of 'too many' come from. Where is the number coming from? bearing in mind that to the average Irish person would consider 6 immigrants to be 'too many'.
What is the 'irishness' you are trying to preserve? Does that mean you want all you descendents to be White?
Regarding your love of Western Civilisation, all the things you attribute to it would not have developed in the way they did without the imput of other cultures or at the very least their preservation during the dark ages, when the best that Western Civ had to offer was a bunch of knackers and 'Hooray Henrys' going off to die on Crusades.
So let me see if I have this right, scientific reasoning and thought, modern medicine, and ideas on human rights and democracy are all under threat of extinction by immigration?
Eugenics is a Pseudo Science. If you want to believe in it go ahead and good luck proving it.
Cousin Marriage? Read some Karl Popper. I could for example say that PR-STV causes countries not to vote socialist because Malta and Ireland have rarely elected Socialist governments and use PR-STV but no, you have to prove the link not just toss out speculation.
You see if this is the framework for your debate then there it will be short and offer no new insight into the issue. The only way to go on these terms is towards 'White Supremacy' and the far right. If this is what you are then admit it and stop being a hypocrite.
Where do the figures of 'too many' come from. Where is the number coming from? bearing in mind that to the average Irish person would consider 6 immigrants to be 'too many'.
If the "average Irish person" would consider 6 immigrants to be too many, then obviously 6 is too many. To force them to accept a greater number is profoundly wrong.
What is the 'irishness' you are trying to preserve?
What is the "V"-ness that you're trying to preserve when you stuff food into your piehole?
Forget abstractions.
It's not a matter of preerving Irishness; it's a matter of preserving the Irish. They are alive and wish to stay alive, not just "individually" but collectively as well.
It's a bit ironic that V. disapproves of the idea of "Irishness" and then goes on to talk about the preservation of Western European civilisation during the dark ages. Irish scholars were in fact one of the cultures responsible for said preservation (as was the Eastern half of the Roman Empire, which remained a modestly going concern until 1453).
'Posting articles joined up and quoted out of context to make it appear that immigrants are responsible for every possible crime??'
I don't see anything on this particular post about crime.
If you want a debate, well, tell what you believe to be true about immigration and multi-culturalism. I'd like to hear it.
Well said HG,
You're correct about uncontrolled mass immigration. Unfortunately, many of our fellow countrypeople would fail a simple common sense test. They walk the same line of appeasement as the Archbishop of Canterberry.
I'm of an age that the final carnage of the immigration folly will not affect me. However, I fear for my children and others. I don't really care for those whose actions have helped excellerate the comming of the Calliphlate. For them it will be "PAYBACK" time.
The Bunny has spoken!
Good girl!
Seriously though, I second you on all points. The sad fact is, that we'll not be opening closed minds any time soon.
For those of us, who know -- and care! -- about the truth, your blog at least serves as a hangout for people who can't take all the PC-lies anymore. It's not our fault that history spread genes and therefore all kinds of human characteristis unevenly.
Blame nature, not me.
PS Good thing that you don't engage in all of the badmouthing, which goes on at other race-realist blogs. It's not about being better, right? It's just about preserving our countries and civilization for our children.
It really is deeply funny that all the far-right people who read and comment on your blog really believe that they are an oppressed majority fighting against PC tyranny believing in the superiority of their shared myths of creation over that of the plundering 'black man'. In politics you should not fear the man who truly believes his position is correct, only the man who truly knows how ridiculous his position can be. Not many of them here, so I sleep easy..
@V
There's enough evidence that the peoples of the world differ in temperaments and intelligence. Such a conclusion is not a political position per se. Read Popper -- understand him this time.
The discussion isn't IF there are differences -- that's documented ad infinitum, ad nauseum -- but HOW did these differences come about? You don't want to think about it, that's fine. Just don't blame people who DO think. To think otherwise, with all the knowledge we have, indicates you have a hard time facing reality. Seriously, how can people like you function in life -- you also deny gravity or 3D?
Don't be so afraid of the truth. People have different genes, so that makes people different from each other. (I would not survive in Greenland, living as an eskimo. Neither would you.)
I for one am not against immigration per se, but I do object to anti-discrimination laws and the idea that all problems in non-white communities are caused by white racism. That's insulting. But you probably don't care. That'll only disrupt the mindset you have.
Also, if you don't believe there is PC tyranny going on, I urge you to vocal Hibernia Girl's political convictions for her. Just write an article under your own name and see what'll happen to you and your career. Let's see if that ain't tyranny, let's see if that's all ridiculous.
PS Eugenics was a left-wing 'progressive' phenomenon. Real conservatives have always been against it. By the time Hitler came to it, eugenics was accepted all over the West -- although not in a similar evil way. Only the Church and religious believers kept opposing it. Eugenics is Leftist. Look it up.
PPS I don't consider myself on the right (or left) at all. I'm apolitical, I lost hope in the system a long, long time ago. (Not even because of immigration either.)
Much of what you say is readable. The intransigence of Islam is frightening, that most of the world is so bound to a set of religious beliefs and is intolerant of those who don't worries me. The suggestion that certain races approve what is effectively incest, and the quoting of IQ ratings for other races, on the other hand, is nonsense. You don't persuade when you use this rubbish in your argument. And ultimately, your arguments would cause Irish people to hate people of other races, and teach their children to do the same. If Irish culture excludes, it's not worth saving. In the area of North Dublin I grew up, local youths beat a Chinese man to death with an iron bar. Because he was Chinese. You would not condone this. But they would make common cause with you. I think you should consider the kind of people you are getting into bed with, people you would otherwise have nothing to do with.
Brian Boroimhe: The suggestion that certain races approve what is effectively incest, and the quoting of IQ ratings for other races, on the other hand, is nonsense.
I said nothing about certain races approving of incest -- but certain populations not only approve of it, they encourage it.
Also, IQ is not at all nonsense.
Please, do some background reading on these issues (see the Basic Biology and Important Publications sections in the right-hand column of this blog for some places to start).
Brian Boroimhe: In the area of North Dublin I grew up, local youths beat a Chinese man to death with an iron bar. Because he was Chinese. You would not condone this.
No, of course not. But, when different populations of peoples are mixed together -- esp. against their will -- this is, sadly, the sort of thing that happens. Which is one of the reasons I advocate not mixing peoples. History has shown again and again that it doesn't work.
Brian Boroimhe: I think you should consider the kind of people you are getting into bed with, people you would otherwise have nothing to do with.
I don't give a toss about being tainted by the "guilt by association" brush. I call it as I see it, and will continue to do so.
Like the Wicked Witch of the West:
Just try and stay out of my way. Just try! I'll get you, my pretty and your little blog too!
From the desk of The Brussels Journal on Fri, 2008-06-13 00:04
(...) Whereas weblogs are an increasingly common medium for self-expression by media professionals as well as private persons, the status of their authors and publishers, including their legal status, is neither determined nor made clear to the readers of the weblogs, causing uncertainties regarding impartiality, reliability, source protection, applicability of ethical codes and the assignment of liability in the event of lawsuits, (...)
[The European Parliament] suggests clarifying the status, legal or otherwise, of weblogs and encourages their voluntary labelling according to the professional and financial responsibilities and interests of their authors and publishers; (...)
MCD
MCD: I'll get you, my pretty and your little blog too!
Ha! Yeah, thanks! -- I saw that, too. And had a right aul' laugh at it.
I like the "voluntary" part. I wonder how long it will be before it's no longer voluntary...?
Hey HG, you seem quite worried about our national IQ. Why not introduce mandatory IQ tests for all citizens? Maybe we could ship off all those who don't make the cut to the Middle East. Also, I hope you will welcome mass Chinese immigration, because, according to your measure, they're smarter than us.
Anonymous: Also, I hope you will welcome mass Chinese immigration, because, according to your measure, they're smarter than us.
Yes, the Chinese do have a higher average IQ than the Irish. Which is exactly why I don't advocate importing masses of Chinese people.
Since my main interest is in preserving the indigenous people of Ireland (i.e. the Irish), it wouldn't make any sense to import lots o' people that are, as you say, smarter than us. (Duh.)
Hibernia girl rocks!
I've added this excellent & well-written blog to favorites.
The author reflects my own views perfectly and I could not agree more with her "mission statement".
My 2 cents: Here in America it is especially galling that the government actually enforces non-assimilation. Instead we have reverse-assimilation -every sign & document in both English & Spanish. What a wonderful way to promote a unified country ( /sarcasm off ).
It's almost as if some group of elites WANTED to split the country up culturally. But no, that's just crazy talk.
I suspect it is the same in Ireland, though I'm not sure.
We welcome legal Irish and tell the illegal Irish to go home. Some of the illegal Irish are quite cozy with La Raza, whom are only using them as tools to further their own ends.
To "mechanical Eye" and others of your ilk - there is no such thing as a "right" to emigrate. Some cultures ( on average, or as a group ) are simply not suited for life in the West, nor we for their culture. Am I a racist and a "hater" because I yearn for one flag, one language, and one united culture? Prove to me, show me a Western country with a 10% or greater Muslim population that is assimilating fully into the host country. Numbers matter - a lot.
Or "Let them be proud Mexicans - in Mexico!!".
Rant done.
Carry on Hibernia girl!
Unixxstar: Here in America it is especially galling that the government actually enforces non-assimilation.
Thanks for the kind words, Unixxstar! :-)
Our government isn't into assimilation, either. It's all about "integration" -- let immigrant groups keep their cultural practices but (somehow, miraculously) also become a part of Irish society. I doubt it will work very well.
Keeping speaking up, Hibernia Girl. One thing I've noted, France and Germany have been the EU nations who have been closing their borders to cross EU immigration, and imposing what they would label as being "protectionist" in other nations. Also, they have maintained farm subsidies for their own people, while attacking those same subsidies of other nations.
The Irish people have civil rights in their own country, and human rights consderations as well.. something those who are attacking you over your article, find very inconvenient. Those who seek to undermine your rights, are the ones guilty of something.
Hibernia Girl: Just found your blog thanks to John Derbyshire. I have been reading for the past half hour and tip my hat to you. I would make one small exception, in your blog "Yes -- Westerners are guilty of all sorts of crimes against humanity" I would heartily disagree. Westerners have preformed no worse and sometimes many times better then other populations around the globe, and in point of fact, since Westerners are the by product of the last 1,000 years of agression, expansion, and bigotry, we have behaved quite well. What we call a crime of humanity today was much more common in the past. I am probably older then you but I have to say that after careful examination, I carry no guilt from my ansestor's actions, and try to judge people in the historical context in which they commited their actions. That being said, much of what happend in the past is beyond conception today because we Westerners have lead the way to modern civilization. Even though we are trying to destroy it with hedonism sheilded by political correctness. In the terms of my native Texas, "Go get'um cowgirl!"
Rick Bowles
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