Tuesday, 8 April 2008

European Indigenous People's Movement

Proposed by Fjordman. I'm all for it.
European Indigenous People's Movement

The European Indigenous People's Movement should support the right of Europe's indigenous peoples to preserve their self-determination, traditions, sovereignty and culture as majority peoples in their own lands.

The list of goals and objectives should include:

1.) The right to maintain our traditional majorities in our own lands, control our own sovereignty and our own self-determination. We do not wish harm or ill-feeling toward any other peoples on earth, but we assert the right to maintain our own majorities in our own lands without being accused of "racism." We reject current trends which preach that we have no right to oppose, control or lessen unlimited immigration from non-indigenous cultures.

2.) The right to teach our children our cultures, languages, historical interpretations, religious celebrations and traditions unimpeded. We reject educational trends which encourage our children to forget or despise their culture, traditions, religious practices and history in order to avoid offense to non-indigenous European residents or citizens.

3.) The right to maintain, cherish and practice our own indigenous religious holidays and celebrations. We reject out of hand current trends which preach that traditional indigenous European religious or cultural celebrations such as Christmas are somehow "racist" or "non-inclusive" and therefore must be "downgraded," "renamed" or otherwise de-emphasized or eliminated in order to avoid offending non-indigenous European residents or citizens. We reject current policies which establish that our indigenous cultures are somehow deficient and therefore are not complete until they are "enriched" by other, non-indigenous cultures.

4.) The right to maintain, cherish and display our own indigenous religious, national, ethnic and cultural symbols. We reject out of hand current trends or policies which preach that our national flags or ethnic symbols of centuries standing are somehow "racist" or "non-inclusive" in order to avoid offense to non-indigenous European residents or citizens.

5.) The right to maintain, cherish, protect and display our own indigenous cultural expressions such as music, artwork and sculptures. We reject out of hand current trends or policies which preach that indigenous European cultural expressions such as statues of boars, folkloric tales about pigs or dogs, paintings with Christian or Classical pagan themes, war memorials with a Christian theme, etc., should be removed from public view, banned, destroyed, modified or otherwise threatened in order to avoid offense to non-indigenous European residents or citizens.

6.) The right to maintain, cherish and protect indigenous burial sites, structures, buildings, churches, museums and other public works and structures from destruction, modification or other changes. We reject out of hand current trends or policies which establish that indigenous public works and structures must be changed or modified to avoid offense to non-indigenous European residents or citizens, or to "make way" for structures or public works that benefit non-European residents or citizens (i.e. digging up indigenous graves that are centuries old in order to "make room" for non-indigenous cemeteries, removing external Christian symbols and statues from churches, etc.) [link]
Previously: Ireland and the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples

This is not a hate site

40 comments:

Alex said...

In my view, the most important right of an indigenous people is the right to close the door with a No Admission sign stuck on it.

Control of immigration is a necessary condition for the protection of all the other rights mentioned in Fjordman's list of goals and objectives. The degree of control I'm talking about would not only put a stop to further immigration, but also have measures for repatriating aliens on the grounds that we have no desire to create a "mongrel culture", and we yearn to preserve our cultural heritage so it can be transmitted to posterity.

Anonymous said...

Its a strawman argument. These "current trends" dont exist

Ethnic Irish said...

This would certainly be an excellent idea. Each country could set up a branch and link up with one another from time to time.

Eventually such a movement could also link up with other indigenous peoples from around the world who are also fighting to preserve their respective culture in their own lands.

Anonymous said...

Sounds great but as someone said previously....it doesn't actually exist!
I'd join it in a heartbeat but all it is is the usual internet blather. We're great at letting steam off on the net but when are we actually going to get up and do something? Myself included.

It is vital to at least educate ourselves as to who is behind all of this mass migration and what they hope to gain from the break up of nations.
I wish it was possible to put links on our comments here.

Hibernia Girl said...

anonymous @ 22:04: I wish it was possible to put links on our comments here.

It is possible, but you have to type the html coding in by hand. Not as convenient as a forum, unfortunately. Sorry 'bout that.

See here for the coding.

New Sisyphus said...

Dear HG -

This initiative reminds me of the one and only time (to my knowledge) that Jean-Marie LePen visited a university in the US. As we was asked a very aggressive and condecending question about his racist policies, he interrupted the questioner to reply (I quote from memory):

"As an American, you are assuming the situation in France is the same as it is here, but you do not undersand. In the French context, I.....I am SITTING BULL."

It was a stunning moment of clarity.

teacher.paris said...

Fjordman never asks who orchestrated the mass importation of third-world immigrants them Europe, Canada, Australia and the United States.


Robert

Guessedworker said...

Fraudman is not part of the solution, and will not be so until he understands that the defence of the West is genetic, not cultural, AND HE USES THE R-WORD.

What's more, his fixation on immigrants who stick their arses in the air for Allah five times a day is a sham. It does not amount to a bona fide defence of Europe's children because it is silent on the power elites and on Jewish ethno-aggression, and it has nothing fundamental to say about liberalism itself.

Enlightenment as to our condition, if that is wat you are looking forward, must be found in other quarters.

Anonymous said...

If he actually believes that then what he should have said was that he was "talking bull"

Anonymous said...

Hibernia Girl, I haven't read a great deal of your site, but what I have seen indicates that you are a sensible and sensitive person. Do you really wish to keep linking to the obsessively anti-semitic and blatantly racist site from whence "guessedworker" comes?

teacher.paris said...

I see that you have brave anonymous thought policemen posting responses.

Probably a clone of the Irish lad I met in Paris who was enraged by Catholic Polish immigrants but who loved Nigerian immigrants.

Anonymous said...

anonymous @ 18.39 said "Hibernia Girl, I haven't read a great deal of your site, but what I have seen indicates that you are a sensible and sensitive person. Do you really wish to keep linking to the obsessively anti-semitic and blatantly racist site from whence "guessedworker" comes?"

Not to mention that this guy reckons Willie Fraziers site is educational in learning about the Northern Conflict.

ENGLISHMAN said...

Each of our particular countries must get together a few credible people to make a complaint under the terms of UNDRIP,this is where we begin,once this is done the movement will evolve naturally,as i stated,i have tried to enlist the support of rational people,but my appeal seems to have fallen upon deaf ears,not even the barron replied,we must not waste this opportunity,there must be some support from the"intelligencia",they can not all be red,some of them must be able to see the truth of our situation.I shall frame another complaint to the UN,wether i recieve the much needed help of those whose duty it should be or not,for the needs of my nation and people come first,and if my efforts are doomed to failure through lack of credible support,then so be it,i shall not be found wanting in my duty.
Download a copy of the UNDRIP yourself from the un website,and publish it in as many places as possible,make the people aware that we have rights just as the native in borneo has to resist oppression.

Hibernia Girl said...

Englishman: Download a copy of the UNDRIP yourself from the un website,and publish it in as many places as possible,make the people aware that we have rights just as the native in borneo has to resist oppression.

Thanks so much, Englishman! I actually did publish part (Article 8) of the UN's Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples here in this post.

You talk about making a complaint to the UN. How does one go about doing that?

Anonymous said...

Article 8 of this declaration has no bearing on the situation here in Ireland. None whatsoever. Nothing referred to in the article here is happening. Its a strawman argument again

Hibernia Girl said...

anonymous: Nothing referred to in the article here is happening.

Sure it is.

Point #1: 1.) The right to maintain our traditional majorities in our own lands....

As of 2006, 14.7 per cent of the people residing in this country were foreign born. That wasn't the case 20 years ago. There are no indications that immigration to this country will be slowed down in any significant way in the near future, so the percentage of foreign born is likely to increase.

Our representatives in the Dail have never had a debate on whether or not to even have mass immigration to this country despite the fact that 80 per cent of people in this country wanted immigration controls when last asked in 2006.

We Irish, therefore, are not being allowed to maintain our traditional majority (nearly 100%) in our own land, the Republic of Ireland.

Points #2, #3, & #4: The right to teach our children our cultures, languages, historical interpretations, religious celebrations and traditions unimpeded. The right to maintain, cherish and practice our own indigenous religious holidays and celebrations. The right to maintain, cherish and display our own indigenous religious, national, ethnic and cultural symbols.

Christmas plays canceled in Irish schools

Not allowed to say the word 'crib' in a Christmas advert on RTE

Thanks for commenting on this! There are so many examples of how our rights as indigenous peoples are being infringed upon, I will definitely be working this into a post of its own.

Anonymous said...

HG says "Point #1: 1.) The right to maintain our traditional majorities in our own lands...."

That remains the case and no-one is trying to take that away. Strawman argument

HG says "As of 2006, 14.7 per cent of the people residing in this country were foreign born. That wasn't the case 20 years ago. There are no indications that immigration to this country will be slowed down in any significant way in the near future, so the percentage of foreign born is likely to increase."

Actually the numbers coming to Ireland has slowed down significantly in the last few months alone, let alone taking into consideration those that have left Ireland. Again there is no danger of native Irish people being in a minority. None whatsoever. Strawman argument again



HG says "Points #2, #3, & #4: The right to teach our children our cultures, languages, historical interpretations, religious celebrations and traditions unimpeded. The right to maintain, cherish and practice our own indigenous religious holidays and celebrations. The right to maintain, cherish and display our own indigenous religious, national, ethnic and cultural symbols."

All remain and no plans to introduce legislation or constitutional referenda to ban any of the above. Strawman again

HG says "Christmas plays canceled in Irish schools"

Throughout my childhood not one of Christmas plays was the nativity play and the decision of individual schools as to what sort of christmas play thay would do if indeed they decided to do at all was down to each individual school. People can choose not to send their kids to a school that does not do a nativity play if they wish. Parents can get together and do their own nativity play if they wish. Their is nothing outlawing it or any attempt to outlaw it. Hostility to religion in this country has increased in recent years as a rsult of church scandals relating to child abuse and more and more Irish parents have no interest in anything religious etc. Irish society IS changing but not as a result of immigration

HG says "Not allowed to say the word 'crib' in a Christmas advert on RTE"

Absolutely stupid I agree but again there is no attenpt by the state to outlaw your religious beliefs, your right to celebrate your religious beliefs etc

HG says "Thanks for commenting on this! There are so many examples of how our rights as indigenous peoples are being infringed upon"

But theres not. Not one of them. Youre living in fantasy land. Its just full of strawman arguments

Hibernia Girl said...

anonymous: Again there is no danger of native Irish people being in a minority.

Show us the data that demonstrates that.

I have shown the data that Irish people are no longer the vast majority in this country -- I have also shown throughout this blog the data that the numbers of immigrants to this country is increasing.

It's put up or shut up time, Harvey. Just because you say something doesn't make it so. You've got to PROVE what you're saying.

anonymous: All remain and no plans to introduce legislation or constitutional referenda to ban any of the above.

There's nothing in the UNDIPR to say that changes imposed on indigenous peoples has to be done by legislation. Changes are changes -- I have given evidence that they are happening -- you have to give evidence that they are not happening.

Put up or shut up.

Anonymous said...

HG says "Show us the data that demonstrates that."

That was in response to my earlier post where I said 'Again there is no danger of native Irish people being in a minority.'

First of all HG you are the one that made the claim that we could be in danger of being made aminority but you showed no evidence that backed that up.

Figures for people coming to this country (not even taking into consideration those leaving) are reducing rapidly this year.

HG says" I have shown the data that Irish people are no longer the vast majority in this country"

No you havent.We still are and will continue to be


HG says "I have also shown throughout this blog the data that the numbers of immigrants to this country is increasing."

Thats false. The numbers coming here this year have reduced dramatically HG. Check them out

HG says "It's put up or shut up time, Harvey."

Cloud cuckoo land


HG says "Just because you say something doesn't make it so. You've got to PROVE what you're saying."

Exactly and you have failed to do so. You are the one making all the claims and failing ot back them up. Miserably I might add. I did prove last night that you lied about Fintan O Toole didnt I?


HG says "There's nothing in the UNDIPR to say that changes imposed on indigenous peoples has to be done by legislation. Changes are changes -- I have given evidence that they are happening -- you have to give evidence that they are not happening."

You have not given evidence that our rights to practice or celebrate religious or other cultural events is being prevented.

You havent because its not true and is a strawman argument




HG says "Put up or shut up."

Now now no need for nasty language HG

Anonymous said...

The numbers of foreign national from the accession states has fallen in the first three months of this year to its lowest levels since 2004 when immigration from these countries started. From the figure of 33,500 in 2007 for January February and March down to under 20,000 in January, February and March of 2008.

Thats a drop of over 13,000 in just three months alone of this year which is in complete and stark contrast of your untrue statement where you say that

"There are no indications that immigration to this country will be slowed down in any significant way in the near future"

You see, thats just not true, is it HG?

Hibernia Girl said...

anonymous @ 18:16: First of all HG you are the one that made the claim that we could be in danger of being made aminority but you showed no evidence that backed that up.

No, I never said that. You brought up the Irish becoming a minority. I was talking about maintaining our 'traditional majority' which is close to 100%.

Figures for people coming to this country (not even taking into consideration those leaving) are reducing rapidly this year.

Show us the figures. Include some links.

Thats false. The numbers coming here this year have reduced dramatically HG. Check them out.

No. It's your claim, you have to provide the numbers -- with links.

I did prove last night that you lied about Fintan O Toole didnt I?

No.

Hibernia Girl said...

anonymous @ 22:17: The numbers of foreign national from the accession states has fallen in the first three months of this year to its lowest levels since 2004 when immigration from these countries started. From the figure of 33,500 in 2007 for January February and March down to under 20,000 in January, February and March of 2008.

First of all, you have to provide links, Harvey. How can any of us verify if these numbers are accurate or not if you don't provide any links?

Secondly, you're only talking about one group of immigrants here, not all of them. Plus, you're forgetting about children of immigrants born here. You have to add them in, too, you know.

Finally, don't forget that our government does not have an accurate count of immigrants here and any numbers you quote are likely to be underestimates.

Data + links, Harvey. Data + links.

Anonymous said...

Oh HG I did prove you lied last night when you claimed that Fintan O Toole

When I asked you who had used 'the argument that immigrants will become "more Irish than the Irish themselves"' you replied in plain black and white that "Fintan O Toole of the Irish Times for one".

That my dear girl was a lie. Indeed you later had to accept that he indeed did NOT make or use that statement

You really should not be so adamant in refusing to accept you are wrong when you know you are wrong. Its not a weakness to admit such things, its actually a strength.

Indeed you also stated that "One of the many pro-immigration arguments we frequently hear" and went on to repeat this claim you made. That also was not true HG. Not true at all

Now for some stats

go to http://www.welfare.ie/topics/ppsn/ppsstat.html

Anonymous said...

HG says "Finally, don't forget that our government does not have an accurate count of immigrants here and any numbers you quote are likely to be underestimates."

I know there is no accurate numbers of immigrants here. The numbers of immigrants that come here dont all stay here do they? Many of them return home, many of them move on to other countries etc but regardless of any of that if youcompare the figures they have of immigrants coming into the country and compare it with the same figures for previous years then you will see the trend. And that trend is downwards HG. I thouht you'd be happy

Hibernia Girl said...

Harvey: Oh HG I did prove you lied last night when you claimed that Fintan O Toole

Nope. Like I told you last night, I was using the expression figuratively. If you can't understand what that means, I can't help you.

Hibernia Girl said...

Now for some stats

go to http://www.welfare.ie/topics/ppsn/ppsstat.html


Yes, thank you. I already wrote about this here.

Again, these numbers are only for the newly accessioned EU countries. You have to add up all immigration to the country.

And, don't forget to add up children of immigrants.

if youcompare the figures they have of immigrants coming into the country and compare it with the same figures for previous years then you will see the trend.

Again, these figures are only for a portion of the immigrants coming to this country. Also, three months does not a trend make. Too short of a time to tell.

Anonymous said...

HG, how is saying ""One of the many pro-immigration arguments we FREQUENTLY hear" when what you really meant was "One of the many pro-immigration arguments we NEVER hear" speaking figuratively? Its the complete and absolute opposite to what you actually claimed

Hibernia Girl said...

Sorry Harvey. I accidentally rejected your last comment about me lying about Fintan O'Toole's position on immigration. Feel free to leave it again.

My response, once again, is that I can't help you if you can't understand the use of figurative speech in the English language. And, like I said last night, I'm not prepared to go around with you in circles about this anymore.

I did not set up any strawman argument about the point-of-view of some pro-immigrationists -- I did not lie about them either. I used the expression that I did as a figure of speech -- not a direct quote -- as a shorthand for the type of argument some pro-immigrationists use.

I can't think of any other way to explain it to you. I'm sorry if you are unable to understand the concept.

Anonymous said...

HG says "Again, these numbers are only for the newly accessioned EU countries. You have to add up all immigration to the country."

That was just an example of the coutnries where the biggest imigration was comng from.

The figures for immigration from all the other countries are there also, not just the accession states

HG says "And, don't forget to add up children of immigrants."

Those would be included in the pps numbers. Children as well as adults need pps numbers also do they not?

Regardless if that is the case or not the figures are comparative from the previous years before. Like with like etc Unless of course you are suggesting that there are thousands of children without parents migrating here from those countries. Are you?

HG says "Again, these figures are only for a portion of the immigrants coming to this country. Also, three months does not a trend make. Too short of a time to tell."

Its actually more than three months. Go back and look at the figures again

Now HG perhaps you will now show us Data + Links HG Data + Links to back up your claim "that I have also shown throughout this blog the data that the numbers of immigrants to this country is INCREASING" when I have shown clear evidence to the contrary

Data + LInks HG, Data + Links

Cmon and show us

Anonymous said...

HG says "as a shorthand for the type of argument some pro-immigrationists use."

Who uses that type of argument that claims that immigarnts wil become MORE Irish than the Irish themselves?

Oh I know what figuratively means but it has no bearing on the comment syou made when you lied about what Fintan O Toole said.

HG read what I am saying closely.

WHEN I ASKED YOU WHO HAD MADE THE CLAIM THAT IMMIGRANTS WOULD BECOME MORE IRISH THAN THE IRISH THEMSELVES

you replied - and here is the exact quote

"FINTAN O TOOLE OF THE IRISH TIMES FOR ONE"

That was untrue. That is not figuarively speaking that is telling a complete untruth. You know it is but you havent the gumption to admit it

You were trying to create yet more strawman arguments, just as you have done in this article also, but got caught out.

Hibernia Girl said...

Harvey: Its actually more than three months. Go back and look at the figures again

You're the one who quoted three months. If there's more data out there to support YOUR assertion, YOU must provide it. Otherwise your assertion remains just that -- an assertion.

Now HG perhaps you will now show us Data + Links HG Data + Links to back up your claim "that I have also shown throughout this blog the data that the numbers of immigrants to this country is INCREASING" when I have shown clear evidence to the contrary

I have provided more than enough links to demographic data to show that there is a long-lasting (much more than three months) trend of immigration increasing in this country. The census folks also predict that migration will continue to be the main driver of the increase in population in this country -- they, not me. So do other studies.

If you can demonstrate otherwise, write something up -- with links to sources -- and I'll post it on the blog here.

Hibernia Girl said...

Harvey: HG read what I am saying closely.

WHEN I ASKED YOU WHO HAD MADE THE CLAIM THAT IMMIGRANTS WOULD BECOME MORE IRISH THAN THE IRISH THEMSELVES

you replied - and here is the exact quote

"FINTAN O TOOLE OF THE IRISH TIMES FOR ONE"


For the last time, Harvey, I thought at the time when I answered your question that you understood that I had used the expression figuratively.

End of discussion.

Anonymous said...

HG, you dont like to ever accept when you are wrong do you?

HG says "You're the one who quoted three months. If there's more data out there to support YOUR assertion, YOU must provide it. Otherwise your assertion remains just that -- an assertion."

I just gave you the example of the first three months of this year. However I provided you with teh link which has all the figures. Its all there HG. Its all there.

The total in 2007 was down from 2006. From March of last year, the figures compared to the previous year have been decreasing. The rate of that decrease has intensified as the months have went on


HG says "I have provided more than enough links to demographic data to show that there is a long-lasting (much more than three months) trend of immigration increasing in this country."

But its not increasing any longer, its now decreasing, as I have shown you with the links to the welfare site. So you were wrong when you said Imigration was increasing when that clearly is not true again.

Hibernia Girl said...

The total in 2007 was down from 2006. From March of last year, the figures compared to the previous year have been decreasing. The rate of that decrease has intensified as the months have went on

You're still talking about only one group of people -- and only for a short period of time. You need to look at all groups over a long period of time. See the census figures I linked to.

As with the "figure of speech" debate, this discussion is over unless you can bring something new to it. I do not have the time to waste saying the same thing to you over and over again simply because you have comprehension problems.

So you were wrong when you said Imigration was increasing when that clearly is not true again.

That is not what I said.

Anonymous said...

HG says "The census folks also predict that migration will continue to be the main driver of the increase in population in this country -- they, not me. So do other studies."

The link that you provide shows a cso report released at the end of 2004. This report gives PREDICTIONS about the POSSIBLE Irish population at varying points in the future. The key point is that it is based on the ASSUMPTION, yes ASSUMPTION (their words not mine) of net immigration figures being at varying levels for that time.

However the up to date figures show that immigration to this country (not taking into consideration immigrants returning home or leaving) decreased last year and has been decreasing at an ever greater rate this year

Anonymous said...

HG says"I have shown the data that Irish people are no longer the vast majority in this country"

Nope. You have shown data that shows that native Irish people remain the vast vast majority of people living on this island.

ENGLISHMAN said...

I should ignore "strawman"if i were you ,he is just winding you up,none so blind as they say.there are readily available statistics for every country in europe,nationmaster,for instance,and if one adds up all of the countries that are suffering from the invasion of the muslim plague ,one will find that the number is 50 million and breeding,all of our countries are being overwhelmed by third world intellectuals, ireland is no exception,and we must maintain the right to preserve our own culture,heritage and demographic superiority,all of the third world countries demand this right and yet demand to live in ours also,why should we not protect our own, since it is far more productive of all human and civic goods than the respective disasters that they have created.
The eussr plan to flood my country with another 20 million and you can expect something similar for ireland,still your eu poll looks encouraging,but since the eu parliament has voted to ignore any negative result of your referendum,they have demonstrated just how anti-democratic they really are,and the next step can only be civil disobedience and non compliance,and you still have your weapons.if you go to the un site it explains how to make a complaint, but we must find some sympathisers on the european mainland,any ideas?

MrSmith said...

Sympathisers on the Continent? That's easy, go to Klein Verzet's blog and also to Balder's Blog. In the highly unlikely event that they won't help, there's probably someone on their blogrolls who will.

unofficial arguido said...

'right to maintain our traditional majority in our own lands'. The heart is in the right place but...
I think : That's an inelegant mouthful, and seems to imply that only an actual/threatened loss of majority status is undesireable.
Prefer: Right to choose policies which preserve the ethnic composition of our countries/ country.(Of course we have that right already; it's just that many people mistakenly think an American/British immigration policy is obligatory.)
Hypothesis: What Ireland needs now is a constitutional amendment to state, 'only persons defined by the constitution as Irish shall be granted Irish citizenship'.
This would take this issue out of the hands of politicians, and stop multinationals offering Irish nationality as part of their incentive package to entice foreign workers.

NewMinority said...

It's happening everywhere except Russia- I suppose it has a lot to do with the culture of capitalism (i.e. the false universality of the enlightenment, bourgeois individualism, illusory idealism), but it usually isn't characterised that way because the Left parties in the West have been severely domesticated so any resistance to ethnic self-annihilation is 'racism'.

We're pretty rapidly becoming a minority in our nations, and most people simply don't see the danger of that-- particularly losing the cities and political/economic power to racial minorities which *may* or *may not* hate us.

This is the third time I have bumped into the 'Indigenous European Movement' while surfing from Australia-- hardly a coincidence I'd imagine, I suspect word is spreading rapidly after some 40 or so years of darkness (that's the bright side to the internet).

I concur with others that formal means of application should be necessitated, but not without losing an entire nation-state; then we will be a 'well-placed' minority with apologists interested in keeping us 'on-the-side' (i.e. oppressed) with no actual power. We can't let it get that far.

The next step is FUNDS.

Tackle monopoly capitalism with it's own weapon-- money = control. I'm quite willing to donate regular allotments of my pay to know some international body will ensure my children won't be racially minoritized or villified by 2100 (ethnic europeans will be 3% of world population by then), and be safe wherever they might be.

Perhaps a 'European Indigenous People's Protection Agency'??

Feel free to keep in touch: apmab1@gmail.com